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pincrusher

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Sustanon Usage

Post by pincrusher on Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:00 am

ok here goes,  i keep reading that everyone recommends that sustanon be injected eod for you to be able to grow with it.  why?   sustanon is designed to give a slow steady release of test over a month long timefroame so why do you need to inject it eod for it to work.  bloodlevels being kept even is one excuse people use but are our bloodlevels ever truly even with any product we use?  even bloodlevels will help keep side affects to a minimum but does it really affect a cycles performance that much?  i am of the opinion that it does not.  when you look at the makeup of sustanon, 160mg of the sust is long acting esters so therefor 2 injections per week would give you 320mg of long estered test which wouldnt be that far off from the 400mg's usually recommended for a first timer.  i have opened up this debate because i am tired of people just saying that it needs to be injected eod without really thinking about what they are saying and really looking at the makeup of the product first.  the ONLY reason to inject eod is if you want to make use of all the short estered test in the sust immediatly, but if you are willing to wait for the rest of the esters to kick in after about 4 weeks then there is absolutely NO reason to have to inject sustanon eod.
here is a copy of a sustanon product description taken from another site:
Sustanon 250
Description

sustanon 250 is an oil-based injectable containing four different testosterone compounds: testosterone propionate, 30 mg; testosterone phenylpropionate, 60 mg; testosterone isocaproate, 60mg; and testosterone decanoate, 100 mg. The mixture of the testosterones are time-released to provide an immediate effect while still remaining active in the body for up to a month. As with other testosterones, Sustanon is an androgenic steroid with a pronounced anabolic effect. Therefore, athletes commonly use Sustanon to put on mass and size while increasing strength. However, unlike other testosterone compounds such as cypionate and enanthate, the use of Sustanon leads to less water retention and estrogenic side effects. This characteristic is extremely beneficial to bodybuilders who suffer from gynecomastia yet still seek the powerful anabolic effect of an injectable testosterone. The decreased water retention also makes Sustanon a desirable steroid for bodybuilders and athletes interested in cutting up or building a solid foundation of quality mass. Dosages of Sustanon range from 250 mg every other week, up to 2000 mg or more per week. These dosages seem to be the extremes. A more common dosage would range from 250 mg to 1000 mg per week. Although Sustanon remains active for up to a month, injections should be taken at least once a week to keep testosterone levels stable.

A steroid novice can expect to gain about 20 pounds within a couple of months by using only 250 mg of Sustanon a week. More advanced athletes will obviously need higher dosages to obtain the desired effect. Sustanon is a fairly safe steroid, but in high dosages, some athletes may experience side effects due to an elevated estrogen level. With dosages exceeding 1000 mg a week, it is probably wise to use an antiestrogen such as Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) or Proviron (mesterolone). The use of Sustanon will suppress natural testosterone production, so the use of HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin) or Clomid (clomiphene citrate) may be appropriate at the end of a cycle. Sustanon 250 is a good base steroid to use in a stack. Athletes interested in rapid size and strength gains find that Sustanon stacks extremely well with orals such as Anadrol® (oxymetholone) and Dianabol (methandrostenlone). On the other hand, Sustanon also stacks well with Parabolan (trenbolone hexahydrobencylcarbonate), Masteron (drostanolone propionate), and Winstrol (stanozolol) for athletes seeking the hard, ripped look. Sustanon 250 is quite abundant on the US black market.

One of the more common versions is the Russian Sustanon 250 manufactured in India. Thousands of these amps are smuggled into the East Coast of the United States where they are then made readily available to bodybuilders. Average price is around $15-$20 an amp, but prices as low as $5 an amp are available to some individuals who can purchase the amps as soon as they come ashore. The Russian Sustanon comes in plastic strips of five covered with a white paper and imprinted with blue ink. More recent lots of Russia Sustanon have the expiration date printed numerous times in purple ink going lengthwise in a line across the strip of five ampules. The ampules have a white paper label imprinted with blue ink. Don't be surprised if the labels are crooked or peel off easily. The labels on Russian Sustanon are commonly glued on crooked, and should peel off, but not in one piece. Also, don't be alarmed if the amps come loose without the plastic strip. The plastic strip is often thrown away to make it easier to smuggle the amps into the country. There is little need to worry about the legitimacy of Russian Sustanon. The World Anabolic Review mentions a counterfeit with rounded corners on the label, but this fake is rarely seen on the US black market.

Another popular version of Sustanon is the Sostenon 250 rediject manufactured by Organon in Mexico. The redijects are very common to the southern region of the United States because they are frequently smuggled over the border after being purchased in Mexican pharmacies. The price for a Sostenon rediject is about $8 in Mexico. In the United States, they are often sold for $20 a piece. Each Sostenon 250 rediject comes packaged in a plastic tray with a foil covering. The World Anabolic Review shows a picture of a rediject with the needle attached. This picture is outdated because Organon recently began manufacturing the Sostenon 250 redijects without the needle attached. The redijects are often favored by many because of their difficulty to counterfeit. However, recently, bodybuilders have complained about some underdosed redijects circulating on the black market in Texas. Fortunately, these underdosed redijects do not seem to be widespread. In the meantime, the chances of getting a fake rediject are still very slim. Less common, but still seen on the US black market are the European versions of Sustanon from countries like Italy, Portugal, and England. All of these amps are scored and have a white label that is difficult to peel off. The amps and boxes should have the lot number and expiration dated stamped on it.


i welcome any and all persons veiws on this subject and i am open to change my mind if someone gives me a convincing enough reason.
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Mr.E

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Re: Sustanon Usage

Post by Mr.E on Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:45 am

A new look into doing Sustanon250
by basskiller

As you can see by the numbers, the quickest way to get the sust levels in your blood stream at a constant maximum level is to shoot ed.
By the middle of week 1, your there, except for a few milligrams.


On a 3cc case, each hash mark equals 25mgs of sust
So to shoot
200mgs would be 8 hash marks or a little over 3/4 of a ml
150mgs would be 8 hash marks or a little over 1/2 of a ml
100mgs would be 4 hash marks or a little under 1/2 of a ml


Also to do this you will need a sterile 40 or 50 ml empty vial to switch all the sust amps into.
basskiller

days.. amount taken.......the amount in the blood stream
1 ..............200mgs ................190mgs
2 ..............200 .......................351
3 ..............200 .......................487
4 ..............150 .......................555
5 ..............150 .......................612
6 ..............100 .......................613
7 ..............100 .......................614
Week 2
8 ..............100 .......................615
9 ..............100 .......................616
10.............100 .......................616
11.............100 .......................617
12.............100 .......................617
13.............100 .......................617
14.............100 .......................618
Week 3
15............100 .......................618
16............100 .......................618
17............100 .......................618
18............100 .......................618
19............100 .......................618
20............100 .......................619
21............100 .......................619
Week 4
22............100 .......................619
23............100 .......................619
24............100 .......................619
25............100 .......................619
26............100 .......................619
27............100 .......................619
28............100 .......................619
Week 5
29...,........100 .......................619
30............100 .......................619
31............100 .......................619
32............100 .......................619
33............100 .......................619
34............100 .......................619
35............100 .......................619
Week 6
36............100 .......................619
37............100 .......................619
38............100 .......................619
39............100 .......................619
40............100 .......................619
41............100 .......................619
42............100 .......................619
Week 7
43............100 .......................619
44............100 .......................619
45............100 .......................619
46............100 .......................619
47............100 .......................619
48............100 .......................619
49............100 .......................619
Week 8
50............100 .......................619
51............100 .......................619
52............100 .......................619
53............100 .......................619
54............100 .......................619
55............100 .......................619
56............100 .......................619


Also you can see by the numbers...
Your shooting 700mgs a week, with the exception of the 1st week,
That your only really doing 619mgs.

Question:

So we all have heard that more even T levels (ED injections) means less side effects, right? Why is that? Can someone briefly expand on this idea? What are some other reasons for keeping our T levels as even as possible? Looking for input here to put a reason behind the technique...

as posted by 46and2aheadofme (the same who made the graph) Thanks 46

Answer:

Ok lets see if we can put this into perspective... I've asked some of who I feel are the most knowledgeable guys on these boards about this to see if they agree and yes, so far everyone seems to be on the same page

The best way to put it is as Andy said .. I'm paraphrasing here


Many, guys say that dbol is many times more effective when taken throughout the day, Bill Roberts included.
There seem to be less sides and more gains as opposed to just taking it 1 or 2 times daily....

The only difference between taking it 1 to 2 times a day and throughout the day is the stability in the blood .

The higher injection frequency = stable blood levels = better gains and or less sides is simply an extension of this analogy.

There's no doubt that people gain from injecting sustanon 1x/week... But, at least in theory, it would be better if split up..
The magnitude of the difference in blood levels increases with dose..
So the need to split up the injections increases with the dose and may not be that big of a deal on small cycles.






Here is the normal 3 times a week chart

Monday, Wednesday, Friday shots
It never gets stable, just Here is Monday, Wednesday, Friday shots
It never gets stable, just develops a pattern after week 7


1 ...250 .......................238
2 ...0 ..........................201
3 ...250 .......................409
4 ...0 ..........................346
5 ...250 .......................532
6 ...0 ..........................451
7 ...0 ..........................384
Week 2
8 ...250 .......................566
9 ...0 ..........................480
10...250 .......................646
11...0 ..........................547
12...250 .......................703
13...0 ..........................595
14...0 ..........................507
Week 3
15...250 .......................672
16...0 ..........................569
17...250 .......................722
18...0 ..........................611
19...250 .......................758
20...0 ..........................642
21...0 ..........................547
Week 4
22...250 .......................706
23...0 ..........................598
24...250 .......................747
25...0 ..........................632
26...250 .......................776
27...0 ..........................657
28...0 ..........................560
Week 5
29...250 .......................717
30...0 ..........................607
31...250 .......................755
32...0 ..........................639
33...250 .......................782
34...0 ..........................662
35...0 ..........................564
Week 6
36...250 .......................721
37...0 ..........................610
38...250 .......................757
39...0 ..........................641
40...250 .......................784
41...0 ..........................663
42...0 ..........................656
Week 7
43...250 .......................722
44...0 ..........................611
45...250 .......................758
46...0 ..........................642
47...250 .......................784
48...0 ..........................664
49...250 .......................566
Week 8
50...250 .......................722
51...0 ..........................611
52...250 .......................758
53...0 ..........................642
54...250 .......................784
55...0 ..........................664
56...0...........................566


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Mr.E

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Re: Sustanon Usage

Post by Mr.E on Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:38 am

The proper use of Sustanon in a cycle
by Squatdemon

One of the most misunderstood ideals when it comes to Sustanon is how to properly use it in a cycle. There is no wrong way, but there is a best way to administer proper doseages so you can fully benifit from the esters in Sustanon.

Sustanon was developed for the primary reason of hormone replacement, and because of the mix of esters most patients only needed one shot a month to keep their hormone levels balanced. Because of this design, the bodybuilder will not recieve proper doseages at once or twice a week injections. Your blood levels will fluctuate up and down continually, which is not what you want while on a cycle. You want stable levels to give your body the best chance it can have to build plenty of muscle.

All test is the same, but once only the ester is removed. People that say test is test are wrong unless you are assuming that the ester has already been removed. I have had plenty of different results fromt the different tests I have used, as well as I am sure you have too. The secret to making sus work correctly, is timing the esters so the blood levels do not fluctuate.

I will assume that everyone knows how an ester works and why one is added to the parent testosterone. With sustanon, you have 4 esters:30mg of prop60mg of phenylprop60mg of isocaproate100mg of deconateCombined to give you 250mg. Now everyone knows for themselves how much test they should take due to previous cycles or no cycles at all. Lets take each ester and see how long they will stay active in the body. 30mg of prop--Prop needs to be injected at least every other day to get the full benifits of the test. I think every third day is a little too long to wait, although some people may disagree. Now lets say you are doing a prop only cycle and injecting 30mg twice a week. You can see already that is a waste of gear. If you inject 30mg of prop twice a week you are totally wasting your time. You will NOT grow off of this, so you can basically take sus and knock it down to 220mg an amp if you are injecting once or twice a week. 60 mg of phenylprop--Phenylprop is not that much different than prop. You can get away with injecting the phenylprop ester every third day. Anyone that has taken nandrolone with a phenylprop ester knows that it is shorter acting and must be injected twice a week (for example, getwoods powder). If injected twice a week, then lets even cushion the amount, you will have all 120 mg in one week.

To recap, so far this is what you get the first week---180 mg of test in your system. If you ask me that was a waste of two amps. That is barely enough to supress the axis, and that is about all you will have happen if you inject 180mg of test per week. Now lets look at the longer acting esters in sus. 60mg of Isocaproate--Isocaproate will give you a duration of about a week before it is let go. This is not bad, but at 60 mg you are still not getting enough test to make it worth the time. 100mg of Deconate--Here is the daddy of the four esters. This is the same ester that is used in Decca-Durabolin. The deconate ester should really average out at 2 weeks, but has been said to last up to 3.This ester was added at a 100mg dose to balance out the quicker acting esters used in sustanon.

If we review one more time, we can see roughly how much test we will have in our body per week when we use sus, and hopefully you can see it is very low. You can pretty much take out the prop and phenylprop until about week 3 or 4, because once the other esters release the test and it gets time to build up in the system, the prop and phenylprop is useless. Not until around week six are you going to get your test levels high enough to do any good, and if you are on a 10 week cycle and start tapering week 8, then your test have been only relatively high for about 2-3 weeks. Call me crazy, but that is not at all what I want in a cycle. Every test cycle should be started high to hit those receptors hard, and I dont even taper at the end (but that is a different story).

The numbers that BIGDAWG and I worked on basically show that your test levels will never at one time be stable for more that a couple of weeks. Why do you think that people say they have less bloat on sus and less sides. There is so little of the short acting test in your system at one time that it is impossible to get any bloat or side effects at all. So you ask, well what is the best way to take sus then? First I would answer dont buy it. If you really want to use a 4 blend test then buy some of the old omna (not the new ones), they have more shorter acting tests in them and the blood levels will stay more equal.

If you dont believe me, ask anyone that has used the old omna and they will tell you they got quite a bit of bloat from it. Reason being is the shorter acting esters in the omna build up your blood levels quicker, hence you have the bloat factor. If someone doesnt like my first answer, then I will give them a second, "inject the sus everyday or at the least every other day." I usually get the "wholly shit, thats crazy!!!" answer. I usually tell them back, no its not crazy, its science. The actual science of sus combined with a bodybuilders needs equal injecting every day.

People seem to forget about the esters and think they are injecting all of 1750mg each week and getting every mg of it. Trust me folks, I am not talking about injecting 7 amps a week for 10 weeks, I am suggesting injecting an amp a day for 3 weeks, and letting the esters do thier work after that. When you crunch the numbers, for the first two weeks you are really only getting the prop, phenylprop, and a little of the isocaproate. Maybe about 700-750 mg for the first two weeks, and for weeks after that when all of the isocaproate and deconate kick in you will stay aroung 600-800mg for weeks following the first couple. You have a perfect taper, if you are into that, and stable test levels. If you go to eod, it will vary a bit, but not enough to really make too much of a difference.

Start off the cycle with 5 weeks of dbol while using the sus, and when you are done with the sustanon, then immediately start injecting two anabolics like eq and decca, or decca and primo/winny. This is a cycle that a lot of the pros are using called front end loading with an anabolic taper. I guinea pigged this idea when BIGDAWG and I were discussing it many months back, and damn it was a really good cycle. Not as good as 1000mg of aratest a week, but still a pretty good cycle. I have cycled sus/omna both ways, and trained relatively the same with the same kind of diet. The difference in the two cycles were like night and day, about a 15-17 pound difference, and two amps of omna a week was my first cycle too. You know, the one you are supposed to grow the most off of because of the virgin receptors. So test may be test, but you will not get the same results from every ester out there if you dont know how to time them. If you are thinking of a sus/omna cycle, give this a try. I promise you will not be disappointed, and you just may thank me and DAWG later......peace.


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pincrusher

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Re: Sustanon Usage

Post by pincrusher on Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:28 am

nice read england but it still doesnt convince me of anything. does the need for stable bloodlevels really make a difference? i think that as long as your test levels are high enough you will gain no matter how much they fluctuate. in the article it even says that people will gain on 1-2 injections per week of sustanon.
even bloodlevels to me is very important for someone taking a very fast acting product like an oral or test suspension but it is not as important for longer estered products like ther ones we typically inject. there are just to many variables that will change the overall bloodlevels such as the type of oil used in the product, where it is injected, how much is injected at a time, how often the user has elevated bloodpressure through aerobic exercise,. there is no graph that will be accurate for everyone so to show a nice even bloodlevel like this example shows is only in a best case senario at best and is not the reality of the issue.
it is recommended to inject test suspension at least 4 times per day but i know of nobdy who injects it that often but people still claim great gains off it. why would it be any different for sust?

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Re: Sustanon Usage

Post by JayTodd on Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:26 am

yeah all good info I do what works best for me and I have found I do best injecting eod or dailly of course I am almost always injecting the full 250. Anybody out there had their blood levels tested and got numbers from it? I would like to hear cuase I had mine tested when I was eod of sust only and proviron and my score was 3627. I just am curious how does that number corelate to amount injected and acutuall blood levels.

JT
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eahuntley

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Re: Sustanon Usage

Post by eahuntley on Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:15 am

during my first cycle i took 250mg once a week. I gained about 25 quality pounds. seemed to work pretty good for me..
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BuffD

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Re: Sustanon Usage

Post by BuffD on Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:54 am

Wow this may be one of the longest posts to read ever recorded LOL. Yes I strongly believe that even blood levels is of major importance. If your levels are fluctuating too much I really feel that it's much easier for side effects to arise. I personallly don't like Sust for that reason. With the faster esters you need to shoot eod at the min. I've done much better shooting more frequently and haven't had 1 single side effect issue since I started doing it.


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eahuntley

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Re: Sustanon Usage

Post by eahuntley on Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:53 am

So if a person was doing 500mg per week, should he break that down to about 125mg eod? I tried to make sense of the stuff above, but there's just too many numbers involved Razz
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pincrusher

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Re: Sustanon Usage

Post by pincrusher on Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:32 am

eahuntley wrote:So if a person was doing 500mg per week, should he break that down to about 125mg eod? I tried to make sense of the stuff above, but there's just too many numbers involved Razz

to answer your question, you will be better off staying away from sust until you are ready to take the full amp every other day.sust actually is bad mainly because of the cost factors more than anything.it is one of the most expensive test products you can buy.
the above articles were a great read and very good guides but i still say that the main reason why it is recommended to take sust eod is to use the short esters faster but if you are a beginner you will most certainly grow on 2 amps per week and possibly even 1 amp per week as long as your diet is very good.
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Eating Machine

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Re: Sustanon Usage

Post by Eating Machine on Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:19 am

I have found that keeping blood levels even is critical to the way that I feel. If I don't feel optimum, my training is not as good and intense as it should be.

For me an injection schedule of 3 times per week is minimum, 7 works best, even with single esters of enan and cyp. I'll at least inject on the mornings of my heavy lifting days. Some may consider this overkill, or unneccessary, however, as most of us know the gains in this sport come from a multitude of little things not one big one. This is just one way I have found to get a slightly better training session.

Sustanon is just too expensive, too painful to spot inject, and makes an injection schedule too difficult IMO.

Most of us have entered a dosage schedule in the "roid calculator" just as basskiller did in the post that Engalnd made. That is a good tool. However, I am here to tell you there are fluctuations that occour through the day as well that I can feel and manipulation of those can be just as important if not more so IMO.

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