I'm interested in long-term TRT, something similar to the type Visions has described (150-200 test + some combination of ancillaries).

My questions are these:

Will this amount of exogenous test shut most people's natural testosterone production down?

If the answer is not certain, then is there a definitive method of determining whether a particular TRT regime is (or is not) shutting down natural test production?

Just for info sake, I'm 40 yo and just coming off a three year injury that kept me out of the gym. I did a nice cycle of test/tren/deca, then PCT, and now I'm considering long-term TRT . . . rather than cycles.

I'm more interested in health, rather than big gains. The cycle was nice to recover quickly what I'd lost.

But now I'm interested in HRT or TRT that will keep my body running optimally for the next few decades . . . and I'd like to do it by *supplementing* my natural hormone production, rather than shutting it down.

Thanks for the input!

lire.trv

I will be 40 next month and started TRT two years ago. Previously, I had always done traditonal cycles (30 plus cycles from age 24) plus proper pct. Now, my goals are somewhat different in that I want balance and to maintain what I have plus improvement in libido, etc. I take test cyp at 200 mg per week and that puts my levels at around 1100 or so. For me that makes me feel great without the sides. I also take letorzole to keep my estrogen levels at around 20.

Whether my natural levels are shut down because of the replacement dose I believe is irrelevent because I am getting a replacement dose. So, at what point does the body quit making test, I don't know but I don't think it matters in my case. Someone else may have a better explanation but that is my opinion.

i make no claims to be knowledgeable concerning long-term trt/hrt usage, but i highly doubt you will be able to take any real amount of test without shutting down your own test production.

This is what I'm loosely suspecting--that HRT/TRT is going to shut me down. I've heard from one other person on the subject, who said his TRT (of about 300mg per week) shut down his FSH and LH.

Love to hear otherwise, but I'm loosely getting the picture that tes/FSH/LH are probably goners on TRT/HRT.

Or not?

lire.trv

I'm not a doctor (yet), but I do study some of this stuff in school. Yes, TRT will shut you down. If your body already has a high amount of exogenous testosterone in it, then your body has no need to produce its own test. So you could try to raise your own test periodically by using HCG now and then, or use an AI like Letro or Aroma, but if you're indefinitely supplementing your test then there is little point in doing so. Using Letro and Aroma would be the best choice because it would stop the feed back loop to your brain causing it to think that your body does not have enough test due to the lack of estrogen in your body. I use a combo of finasteride and aromasin during the end of my cycles and PCT, because that causes almost zero test conversion in the body, which then tells your body that there is a big lack of testosterone in it. So then my body rushes itself to produce test again. So that is another option to help your body continue to make its own test. I also suggest Aromasin over all other AI's because it has no effect on cholesterol and has little effect on bone growth as well. There will be new and better AI's coming out on the market soon, so keep your eyes open for 'em. Women are a much bigger market for pharmaceuticals than men, so estrogen related drugs are coming out much faster than testosterone related drugs. Even though we use these drugs to raise our test; they are still drugs meant to be used by women only.

I suggest you go get your Test level checked from your Dr and see where you are... If you are now having libido problem, short term memory, mild depression, fatigue you are ready for TRT... If you level is well above 400ng/dl then an AI could be used... lower then 400 and I would get on TRT

In some clinical studies they gave guys TRT + an AI and the body kept producing more test so there level was higher then with TRT only... one thing that they didn't point out was the dose of the TRT... I would say it was only 100mg ew because thats what most Dr's start you on for TRT but that is only a guess...

TRT will shut down your natural production as long as the TRT is = to or greater then your natural level... so the higher your TRT the lower your production... the body will balance out for what it thinks it should be at...

Okay, so working with exogenous Test is tricky. Need to do blood work, then sort of guage how much to use, in conjunction with Aromasin, etc, etc.

Pseudo-science and product propoganda aside, what are research-based *proven* stimulants of natural testosterone production?

I'll post this question in a new thread......

Again,,, go get tested for you natural level before you do anything... Tribulus may be all you need...

At 40, we can safely assume my test levels are not optimal--i.e., at the level of a 20 yo.

I'll definitely try to get my test levels checked, and proceed from there. I was--more or less--trying to get an idea of what "treatments" would be the best . . . ahead of finding out (shocker!) that my test levels are no longer what they used to be.

lire.trv

Normal treatment for low test is more test, which shuts down your natural production

Don't make it too complicated. You probably have normal levels for a 40 yr old like me. What is good about TRT is that you can get your levels in the high normal range year around without having to do pct. I think Visions will agree that I don't understand why every middle age man doesn't get on it. TRT is truly a good thing for us old farts.

Before I make that leap, I'd just like to research all the angles . . . make sure I'm doing the best thing for my body and mind.  

I like to learn, and sometimes little things matter a lot . . . and sometimes not at all.  For example, I think some (most?) of synthetic testosterone comes from soybeans.  Does a human body react differently to non-human-produced Test, than it would react to natural Test?  

It's possible today for a person to start TRT at 40 and be on it for 40 years.  Maybe a little thing makes a big difference over a long time.  

Anyway, just being cautious and trying to do my due diligence.  

Thanks for the input.  Roids.biz's forums are giving me an excellent education.   :-)

lire.trv

I think you are wise to research this. I discussed it with my physican who is board certified in internal medicine but who is known in this area as the anti-aging specialist. He ordered the blood work and wrote me a perscription after first getting a long-term game plan. Good luck

Would you mind outlining (roughly) your long term plan? I'd like to see as many different approaches as possible, particularly ones that involve longer-term thinking . . . i.e., years/decades as opposed to weeks/months.

TIA!

lire.trv

Without TRT I would be on the path to becoming a grumpy old man with fatigue, depression and libido problems...

lire.trv wrote:Would you mind outlining (roughly) your long term plan?I'd like to see as many different approaches as possible, particularly ones that involve longer-term thinking . . . i.e., years/decades as opposed to weeks/months.

TIA!

lire.trv

I am 59 and here is what makes me feel much younger:
75 mg test cyp ew
2 iu hgh ed
100 mcg t4 ed
12.5 mg aeromiasin ed

I have been doing this for about 5 months along with 40 min cardio ed and moderate weight training twice a week. Have lost over 20 lbs and 2" on my waist. And I feel better, physically and mentally, than I have in the last 20 years. My doctor also checks my hormone levels regularly.

comradebillyboy wrote:I am 59 and here is what makes me feel much younger:
75 mg test cyp ew
2 iu hgh ed
100 mcg t4 ed
12.5 mg aeromiasin ed

Is the Aromasin just to keep estrogen down?

Or, since you're only on 75mg of test ew, have the results of your hormone tests shown that FSH/LH/Test are still running?If so, the Aromasin would then be being used to stimulate additional endogenous test?

Finally, is it safe to run Aromasin permanently?

Thanks for the post!Very interesting plan!!

~lire.trv

My long term plan is TRT forever and I get blood work done every 6 months to make sure my test and estrogen levels are good. Also get a PSA every 6 months. Talk to you doctor.

comradebillyboy wrote:I am 59 and here is what makes me feel much younger:
75 mg test cyp ew
2 iu hgh ed
100 mcg t4 ed
12.5 mg aeromiasin ed

I have been doing this for about 5 months along with 40 min cardio ed and moderate weight training twice a week. Have lost over 20 lbs and 2" on my waist. And I feel better, physically and mentally, than I have in the last 20 years. My doctor also checks my hormone levels regularly.

That sounds really good...next time the Dr test your Test and estrogen level let us know... am sure the Aromasin is making you produce more test then TRT alone

jrobinsonlaw wrote:My long term plan is TRT forever and I get blood work done every 6 months to make sure my test and estrogen levels are good. Also get a PSA every 6 months. Talk to you doctor.

Hmmn.Forever on Aromasin.Interesting!

Also, I guess you're not having your LH and FSH checked.This makes sense, since you plan to be on it forever.Who cares if you're shut down or not.

As for talking to my currrent doctor, I'm not sure that'd be helpful.In the context of weight training, I mentioned to him my worry that high protein intake and high bp (which is now under control, post cycle) might be stressful on my kidneys, and he said, "The body doesn't need more than six ounces of protein/meat a day."

End of discussion.

I either need a tactful way of getting my doctor more familiar with weight training, or I need a different doctor.

I don't think there have been any real long term studies on using Aromasin permanently. So you'll be sailing in unchartered waters. Find a good, sympathetic doctor bro. Good luck.

Uzi

I meant TRT forever. I would get a doctor who is into exercise and wellness.

Uzisuicide wrote:I don't think there have been any real long term studies on using Aromasin permanently. So you'll be sailing in unchartered waters. Find a good, sympathetic doctor bro. Good luck.

Uzi

You are 100% on that...longest studies I found were 2yrs... then again most studies are very short

Visions wrote:That sounds really good...next time the Dr test your Test and estrogen level let us know... am sure the Aromasin is making you produce more test then TRT alone

Before my last blood test 2 months ago I was taking 200 mg test cyp per week and my test was way over the reference range and my doctor told me to cut back. I got another blood test today, so I should have results in the next week or two. I will guess that now I am in the high-normal range. My doc is not testing for LH and FSH, but since my sex drive is better than it has been in the last 15 years, I suspect those levels are ok.

Also, the test and other stuff made me feel good enough to get off of anti-depressants after 10 or 11 years on. Been off that shit for 4 months now and don't miss it at all.

comradebillyboy wrote:Before my last blood test 2 months ago I was taking 200 mg test cyp per week and my test was way over the reference range and my doctor told me to cut back. I got another blood test today, so I should have results in the next week or two. I will guess that now I am in the high-normal range. My doc is not testing for LH and FSH, but since my sex drive is better than it has been in the last 15 years, I suspect those levels are ok.

Also, the test and other stuff made me feel good enough to get off of anti-depressants after 10 or 11 years on. Been off that shit for 4 months now and don't miss it at all.

Variables...
1) How long were you using the Test Cyp before the initial blood test.
2) After the first test, did you cut back or stop Testosterone usage somewhat or altogether?

When getting a blood test on TRT or any steroid use for that matter, you should always have your LH and FSH levels included in the blood test. Otherwise you're only getting half of the picture with regards to your bodie's reaction to the hormones. Please keep us posted as to the test results.

Uzi