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"proper" PCT

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frostdaddy

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"proper" PCT

Post by frostdaddy on Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:33 am

PCT is obviously the most important part of any good cycle.  The more I research what the "proper" PCT consists of, the more I find conflicting views.  I really like the Sticky HCG & PCT Recommendations .  That PCT makes the most sense to me, althought I have a couple questions.  

Can the Aromasin be replaced with Nolva and can the Cabaser be replaced with Proviron?

Also I have also heard of guys running HCG during their PCT, does running HCG consistently throughout the cycle make it so you dont have to run it during PCT?

I was also wondering if some of you vets would share your own personal favorite PCT with the cycle it precedes and how well you maintained your gains afterwards, strength and weight.

For example, gained 25lbs, maintained 15lbs after PCT with 85% strength (these aren't actual numbers).
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Dr. Steroids
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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by Dr. Steroids on Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:12 am

OK, there are posts and threads on here to explain why you should run a-sin in place of nol. Basically there is no medical evidence that nol will help elevate test levels and also it will affect you in other areas such as cholesterol. A-sin has been medically proven to help elevate test levels and doesn't affect lipid levels and raise bad cholesterol.

Also, if you run HCG throughout the course of the cycle you don't need to try to run HCG during PCT b/c why wait to run it? If you keep your testes working to an extent during you will bounce back quicker and also that translates in keeping more of your gains post cycle as well.

I would view Visions PCT threads. Their a must read and properly explain what you should do and as always get your blood work done after your cycle to see if your PCT worked.

Cabaser is run as an anti progesterone and not for PCT. You run dost to keep PIG at bay while running an strong androgen where you could get PIG.

As for me I have found that Visions PCT of clomid and a-sin works the best for me with HCG ran throughout the course of the cycle. I run clomid for 4 weeks @ 100mg ED as 25 mg of A-sin for 6 weeks. I have been able to keep the majority of my gains. As for strength you need to keep eating and keep that intensity up and you'll keep your strength gains as well. It will drop but it wont be alot at all.

Its late and I'm about to pass out but I hope this helps bud.


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frostdaddy

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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by frostdaddy on Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:53 am

Thanks Dr. Steroids, I can see why Cabaser and Aromasin are better.

I have another question though.  Can you run Aromasin throughout a cycle to keep down unwanted side effects, or will that hinder your gains?
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*N.V.S*

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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by *N.V.S* on Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:41 am

You can definitely run A-sin throughout your cycle so you completely keep away unwanted sides. But it is pricey. A great substitute would be letro to run throughout cycle to keep estrogen based gyno away. To combat PIG you'd want to run Dostinex throughout the cycle.


nvs


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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by Visions on Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:22 am

frostdaddy wrote:Thanks Dr. Steroids, I can see why Cabaser and Aromasin are better.
 
I have another question though. Can you run Aromasin throughout a cycle to keep down unwanted side effects, or will that hinder your gains?          

You should definately run an AI throughout the cycle to keep estrogens in the normal range... there are many unwanted sides from high estrogens... some seen like gyno and others hidden like fatigue, depression, low libido, less muscle building because the high estrogen can attatch to the androgen receptors making them useless...
 
To answer another question you had about AI's hindering gains.... no its the opposite... estrogen isn't needed to build muscle yet as I pointed out above it can hinder gains by attatching to the androgen receptors


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El Mucho

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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by El Mucho on Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:57 am

I can't entirely bash Nolvadex. It has been shown in several studies to increase the output of Testosterone by about 150%, but it does it indirectly. Clomid is much weaker than Nolva but the drug itself has a little more direct effect on increasing Testosterone. I also think that Nolvadex is handy because it kicks in faster than the AI's do, so it is useful in case of an emergency. I was using some Aromasin from a chem site and started having some issues with gyno, and if I hadn't of had some Nolvadex on hand to stop the problem then I would most likely have permanent puffers on the ends of my man boobs. So if you run into gyno problems then taking some Nolva immediately to stop the problem, and then simultaneously adding an AI or increasing the dose of AI is the best way to go about it in my opinion. Then you just stop taking the Nolvadex after the AI has started working.
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frostdaddy

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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by frostdaddy on Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:37 am

Thanks for all the input guys. It really cleared up a lot of stuff for me.
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frostdaddy

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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by frostdaddy on Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:35 am

Damn, aromasin is crazy expensive.

Here's what I'm think of...

Test E 500mg / week 1-12 weeks
Deca 250mg / week 1-12 weeks
Tbol 30mg / day 1- 4 weeks
Cabaser 0.25mg / day 1-19 weeks
Letro 0.25mg / day 1-13 weeks
HCG 1000iu / week 1-12 weeks
3000iu / week 13
Clomid 100mg / day 14-16 weeks
Aromasin 25mg / day 14-19 weeks

How does this look?

Tryin to put this cycle together gave me an idea. How about a Vision's Proper PCT Packaged Cycle?
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4thAD

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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by 4thAD on Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:30 am

frostdaddy wrote:Damn, aromasin is crazy expensive.

Here's what I'm think of...

Test E 500mg / week 1-12 weeks
Deca 250mg / week 1-12 weeks
Tbol 30mg / day 1- 4 weeks
Cabaser 0.25mg / day 1-19 weeks
Letro 0.25mg / day 1-13 weeks
HCG 1000iu / week 1-12 weeks
3000iu / week 13
Clomid 100mg / day 14-16 weeks
Aromasin 25mg / day 14-19 weeks

How does this look?

Tryin to put this cycle together gave me an idea. How about a Vision's Proper PCT Packaged Cycle?


Get it from a place that sells research chems. Much cheaper...


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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by Visions on Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:04 am

frostdaddy wrote:Damn, aromasin is crazy expensive.

Here's what I'm think of...

Test E 500mg / week 1-12 weeks
Deca 250mg / week 1-12 weeks
Tbol 30mg / day 1- 4 weeks
Cabaser 0.25mg / day 1-19 weeks
Letro 0.25mg / day 1-13 weeks
HCG 1000iu / week 1-12 weeks
3000iu / week 13
Clomid 100mg / day 14-16 weeks
Aromasin 25mg / day 14-19 weeks

How does this look?

Tryin to put this cycle together gave me an idea. How about a Vision's Proper PCT Packaged Cycle?

All looks great and I can tell you have done alot of research ,,,except you should use at least 1/2 dose of Letrozole everyday... so 1.25mg to start with... and I would prefer that you stop the deca a week before the last test dose... this way the test and deca clear out of you around the same time...


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frostdaddy

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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by frostdaddy on Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:19 am

Visions wrote:All looks great and I can tell you have done alot of research ,,,except you should use at least 1/2 dose of Letrozole everyday... so 1.25mg to start with... and I would prefer that you stop the deca a week before the last test dose... this way the test and deca clear out of you around the same time...

Yeah I was wondering about the Letro does being too small. I know its personal preference but why do you prefer Aromasin to Letro?

As with stopping the deca a week earlier, you're totally right. I don't know how I missed that.

Thanks for all the help.
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El Mucho

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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by El Mucho on Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:02 am

frostdaddy wrote:Yeah I was wondering about the Letro does being too small. I know its personal preference but why do you prefer Aromasin to Letro?

As with stopping the deca a week earlier, you're totally right. I don't know how I missed that.

Thanks for all the help.

Aromasin is just all around better, but not stronger, than Letrozole. Aromasin does not cause an estrogen rebound when you stop taking it, it is much better for your cholesterol, and it can possibly increase your levels of IGF-1. Letrozole is stronger as far as lowering estrogen, but it does cause a rebound, it's harsh on your cholesterol profile, it can sometimes kill your libido, and its effects on IGF-1 could go either way. Not to say that Letrozole is bad and doesn't have its benefits, but Aromasin is just a much safer and bodybuilder friendly AI.
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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by gustavo77 on Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:09 am

El Mucho wrote:I can't entirely bash Nolvadex. It has been shown in several studies to increase the output of Testosterone by about 150%, but it does it indirectly. .

Hey bro, is there any chance that you can post some of these studies on nolva, showing it increases test?? I'd be very interested in seeing them. Thanks.


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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by Visions on Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:06 am

gustavo77 wrote:Hey bro, is there any chance that you can post some of these studies on nolva, showing it increases test?? I'd be very interested in seeing them. Thanks.


Yea me too... I have searched and searched for anything related and can't find a damn thing... my problem is if there is a study to say thats it increases test that much, why is it there are so many studies that say it doesn't increase test at all... I would be weary about those results when many other studies state just the opposite...


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lenochka123

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Re: "proper" PCT

Post by lenochka123 on Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:48 am

PCT is very helpful


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