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Couple of insulin questions.

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vagrant

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Couple of insulin questions.

Post by vagrant on Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:33 am

Hey guys, it's me with all the questions again.

The guidance I've recieved so far has helped me gain enough understanding of AAS so that when the time comes to start my cycle, I will be able to do it safely, know how to add PCT, maintain my levels with my TRT, and not damage myself. It has helped me know enough to talk sensibly with my doc and do everything right with good medical guidance too.

As you've already figured out, I ask lots of questions and want to totally understand anything before I even consider if I want to put it into my body or not. It's f*ed up enough and the goal here is to make it better, not worse.

In my work, I've seen people totally messed up by insulin - not bodybuilders, actual diabetics who didn't do things correctly. Some of them died. I know that insulin can kill you if you do it wrong. Having worked many cardiac arrests caused my insulin, diabetic ketoacidosis emergencies from not enough insulin and too much food, hypoglycemia from too much insulin and not enough food.

Medically, I completely understand it's use, risks, benefits. That's why it scares me. Now, from a bodybuilding perspecitve - I don't know much except to warn - "if you mess up, you will die". So, to develop and complete my understanding of this subject, I've got some questions for those that have used it.

1. 10g carbs/IU insulin. Is this just a safety net or an absolute necessity? I hear conflicting info on this one.

2. I already use 57g carbs, 57g protein pre/post workout and 2 hours postworkout to boost my own endogenous insulin. Would use of insulin simply make this more effective? If so, would it be OK just to use enough carbs to stay out of hypoglycemia? i.e. If this is enough to not go hypo with say for example 10iu - would it make muscle growth better?

I ask this because my 57/57 shake is over 500ml. I'd hate to have to do a full liter after a workout.

3. Do I understand correctly that insulin should only be used while on cycle? Would this be best during the last half of a 10 week cycle or during the whole thing? What about using it during PCT?

4. If for example someone works up to 10iu and is using that 3x a week on lifting days for a full 10 week cycle + PCT then letting time "off" be off slin too - good idea, bad idea, unsafe? No one wants to turn themselves into a diabetic.

5. Say for example someone like me - struggles to make any gains, needs any advantage they can get because the extra strength helps out in real life and is working hard to stay out of a wheelchair then loses all the gains when triathlon season comes along because of all the cardio training - yes cardio does use up muscle if you do too much even if you feed it properly, leaving you weak and skinny - or weak and fat if you overfeed it. Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt. (and no I'm not giving them up - I'm going to do it all for as long as I'm able so when this shit finally gets me down I'll have some good memories of my able bodied time...besides according to the neuro I should have been in the chair 3 years ago)

Would using insulin during this training time help maintain muscle mass gained during a cycle and during my off season weight training?

Yeah, I know - lots of questions, but like I said before...I want to know it all, even about the things I won't ever do or the things it's not time for yet.

Thanks to anyone with experience who can answer these questions.

OK, it was 5 questions not a couple. Sue me.
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BuffD

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Re: Couple of insulin questions.

Post by BuffD on Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:06 am

Ok um lets see

1- It's more of a safety net that you don't wanna mess with. It's really hard to say how much Slin one person can handle. It wouldn't be the same for everyone. So it's always best to get more than you would need. If you do say 10ius of Slin I would hit 100g of carbs. Have about 60-70g of a faster acting carb and the rest complex carbs so you get a steady release of carbs.

2- It would make everything more effective because the nutrients will be transported much faster as your body won't have to take the time to produce Slin on it's own. Get more than you need as far as carbs. Never try to get "just enough". With that mix 5ius of Slin would be the MAX I would take. Remember you need slow acting carbs as well as the Slin will peak again after you shoot in a few hrs depending on the type you use.

3- No you can use Slin at any time. in a way it's good to use because it can give your pancreas a break. The pancreas really has to work pretty hard when you take in a bunch of carbs post workout. So in theory (I've read a few articles on this) taking in exogenous Slin can actually keep you from becoming Diabetic. You just gotta watch when you aren't on cycle that it doesn't get you fat. You need to eat cleaner. It will help you keep gains and maybe even make more gains. Several Natural competitors will use Slin.

4- No you don't have to drop the Slin on your time off. I wouldn't use it for prolonged periods of time though. Say for the first 4 weeks of a cycle, then 2 off then 4 on then 4 off then back on for an example. Or just don't use it as often. If you have been using say 4 times a week use it once or twice.

5- Yes it would help.

Bottom line is always take every precaution when using Slin cuz it can mess you up BIG TIME! It's not for beginners to play around with.


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vagrant

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Re: Couple of insulin questions.

Post by vagrant on Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:56 am

Hey, thanks for the information. One day, I may actually grow a pair and try it. But like everything else, I want it to be done right and know all there is to know first. 2 years of nursing school and paramedic school, along with experience dealing with diabetics, I'm pretty familiar with the risks and how to manage it, but don't really know it from a bodybuilding point of reference.
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Visions
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Re: Couple of insulin questions.

Post by Visions on Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:48 am

Get some metformin and make your receptors less resistant to insulin and your muscles will take up more food for fuel and it's much safer... Lots of benifits to the stuff... read up on it


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vagrant

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Re: Couple of insulin questions.

Post by vagrant on Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:49 am

Visions wrote:Get some metformin and make your receptors less resistant to insulin and your muscles will take up more food for fuel and it's much safer... Lots of benifits to the stuff... read up on it


Oh great, more reading to do.

Thanks. That's why I'm here, to read up and learn.
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RuffHouse

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Re: Couple of insulin questions.

Post by RuffHouse on Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:48 am

Yeah, 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off is a good slin cycle. I'm reading up on Twin Labs' Ultra Fuel and also Vitargo. I lke what Vitargo has to offer because it replenishes the glucogen 70% faster than most post workout drinks. Plus it also has Creatine in it.
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BuffD

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Re: Couple of insulin questions.

Post by BuffD on Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:40 am

RuffHouse wrote:Yeah, 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off is a good slin cycle. I'm reading up on Twin Labs' Ultra Fuel and also Vitargo. I lke what Vitargo has to offer because it replenishes the glucogen 70% faster than most post workout drinks. Plus it also has Creatine in it.

Try the Waxy Maize from True Protein. I've been using it and it's great stuff.


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vagrant

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Re: Couple of insulin questions.

Post by vagrant on Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:30 am

I'm actually getting more interested in this than in AAS. Together, they are going to be awesome. I had a meeting to make some new policies with our medical director a few weeks ago and pulled him aside for some questions.

He's a pretty good Bodybuilder himself and a damn good doc so we talk sometimes about nutrition and stuff.

So here's the scoop.

It will not make you a diabetic. No research has ever shown that doing spikes around the workout and being in a hyperinsulin state for 4 hours is going to be harmful if you don't get hypo and die.

Do it right and it's fine.

Do it wrong and die.

There is one thing though that I'm not sure about. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere in any of my reading. I just thought of it today when I had to change my workouts around a bit. I don't know if it would be good or just stupid.

3X a week I'll be doing 2 workouts a day.

Heavy/real work in the AM and accessory work in the PM. I've got to eat for it anyway. This is going to mean 8 meals a day - 4 shakes/4 whole (I simply can't eat whole food immediately pre/post workout).

Since I'll be feeding the workouts anyway. What about this.

Preworkout shake
workout
Postworkout shake + extra carbs + slin
1 hour later - 2 pieces chicken, 3/4 cup rice, 1/2 cup beans
2 hours later - 2 pieces chicken, 1/2 cup corn, 1/2 cup beans
2-3 hours later - start over
preworkout shake
workout
postworkout shake + extra carbs + slin
1 hour later - 2 pieces chicken, 3/4 cup rice, 1/2 cup beans
2 hours later - 2 pieces chicken, 1/2 cup corn, 1/2 cup beans

This works out to about 4500 calories/day. I'm 200lbs at 10ish% bodyfat.

The other 4 days I'll just eat my same 6 meals I've been gaining on for the last 3 months. I'm up 30lbs and still have abs, kind of, almost, sort of, in the right light.

The beans are lowfat baked beans and black beans - not the green kind that I eat when cutting.

If this is a good plan, please let me know.

If this is stupid, please let me know immediately.

Thanks.
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BuffD

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Re: Couple of insulin questions.

Post by BuffD on Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:05 am

Looks good to me. At least you are really taking the time to learn about this. Roll with it. Make sure you always have extra carbs around (Gatorade or even go get glucose tabs).


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