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Methanabol Then Anavar.....

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Dmarksvr

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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Dmarksvr on Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:52 am

Dude...re read what i asked in response What im confused about by what you said is doesnt test count as an aas? and if so, and if it is gonna shut down my natural test, what are the benifits opposed to the anavar or whatever...is it a matter of degrees? Would proviron not counter act most of the effects the the test supplement would be there to combat?I have no doubt adding it will show me great results...to much to fast is my fear though, given what i know a drug like anavar has done for me in the past.

If we are talking using it to compensate for lack of sex drive, im not to worried about that given my prior experience with anavar, and the fact that i'll probably add proviron to my cycle, wether i go anavar or tbol. And its looking like im gonna go tbol now which seems to promote libido, and probably stack proviron with it...then do nova as pct. But after reading some more...probably 20-30mg instead of the 10-15 i originally stated.

Still curious about the liver effect of tbol compared to anavar?
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Kevcallyuk

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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Kevcallyuk on Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:44 am

CHAPS wrote:You have a problem working out consistantly? That comment alone tells me you shouldn't be touching any steroids, learn how to lift and eat correctly, you can meet your goals naturally.

Bump to that if your not training regularly then you run the risk of injury ass are for the comited who have there diet and training sorted and are used to it missing training is a cardinal sin and you wont get the gains you want steriods put a strain on your body so when you run a cycle for 12-14 weeks you need to get as much out of it as posible before you have your off time to let your system recover i think you can achive what you want without ass. A few of my frends commented when i started that i was taking the easy way by using but without training and eating ass wont do anything other than shut you down. I hope you get what you want bro good luck
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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by gustavo77 on Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:29 am

Dmarksvr wrote:Dude...re read what i asked in response
What im confused about by what you said is doesnt test count as an aas? and if so, and if it is gonna shut down my natural test, what are the benifits opposed to the anavar or whatever...is it a matter of degrees? Would proviron not counter act most of the effects the the test supplement would be there to combat?I have no doubt adding it will show me great results...to much to fast is my fear though, given what i know a drug like anavar has done for me in the past.

If we are talking using it to compensate for lack of sex drive, im not to worried about that given my prior experience with anavar, and the fact that i'll probably add proviron to my cycle, wether i go anavar or tbol. And its looking like im gonna go tbol now which seems to promote libido, and probably stack proviron with it...then do nova as pct. But after reading some more...probably 20-30mg instead of the 10-15 i originally stated.

Still curious about the liver effect of tbol compared to anavar?


Yes, Test is a AAS but whether it is synthetic or natural it is test.  Anavar is not test and neither will anavar replace the effects of testoterone in the body.  So if you take anavar or t-bol without test you will shut down your test production with no replacement.  Also at 150-200mg/wk of test you are just above normal range and will not blow up, just make nice steady lean gains.  T-bol is not that harsh on the liver, and is effective at 40-60mg/day.


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Dmarksvr

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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Dmarksvr on Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:30 am

Kevcallyuk wrote:Bump to that if your not training regularly then you run the risk of injury ass are for the comited who have there diet and training sorted and are used to it missing training is a cardinal sin and you wont get the gains you want steriods put a strain on your body so when you run a cycle for 12-14 weeks you need to get as much out of it as posible before you have your off time to let your system recover i think you can achive what you want without ass. A few of my frends commented when i started that i was taking the easy way by using but without training and eating ass wont do anything other than shut you down. I hope you get what you want bro good luck


I get what your saying, but firstly i think your talking about gains that are way outside my goals. Second my prior experiences tell me that i can do a cycle without consistant training before hand, see the results i want and avoid injury. I worked out enough to see results, but i dont think i was anywhere near over doing it. None of my work out buddies ever accused me of over training (still saw gains though, and kept em for along time)

As far as taking the easy way out...ya i kinda am, because it worked before, and i wanna get back there. The speed at which i saw gains kept me motivated like never before even after the cycle ended for some time. This time once im back where i was i have a second chance at keeping the gains and improving naturally...or worst case scenerio maybe a couple years later i'll need to do a refresher cycle. Ideally i would be able to overcome my lack of discipline but so far that hasnt been the case...so its do this....or stay where im at and hope i eventually succeed at achieving better dicipline.
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Dmarksvr

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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Dmarksvr on Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:22 am

gustavo77 wrote:Yes, Test is a AAS but whether it is synthetic or natural it is test. Anavar is not test and neither will anavar replace the effects of testoterone in the body. So if you take anavar or t-bol without test you will shut down your test production with no replacement. Also at 150-200mg/wk of test you are just above normal range and will not blow up, just make nice steady lean gains. T-bol is not that harsh on the liver, and is effective at 40-60mg/day.


Gotcha.....so now that im probably goin with tbol (chlordehydromethyl TESTOSTERONE), probably stacked with proviron and clomid and/or nolvadex as pct....do you think a supplemental test injection is needed as much, if at all?
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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by gustavo77 on Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:24 pm

Look i am only making suggestions based on what i have experienced, so yes, I recommend doing Test with ANY cycle.


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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Kevcallyuk on Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:18 pm

We all want different things so its good to ask questions, ive learnt a lot here so far and have not had a question unanswered keep asking bro and you will reach your goals.
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Dmarksvr

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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Dmarksvr on Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:14 pm

gustavo77 wrote:Look i am only making suggestions based on what i have experienced, so yes, I recommend doing Test with ANY cycle.

LOL well i didnt know you were gonna reccomend test with ANY cycle, but now i do (btw that was a friendly LOL, with no tone...know its kinda hard to tell when its typed)

So forgetting your championing of test for a moment, do you think its AS needed with that cycle? Since it atleast to me given the chemical name seems to be a form of test?  i'd also like to hear input from others on that, along with more input/feedback on ALL the questions i've asked so far. Im so greedy

Kevcallyuk: Thx for the encouragement man, and your right. I've browsed some of the other boards, and it seems people here from what i've seen aside from being helpful (even though i had to stick up for myself alittle) are alot more serious about doing it right and putting newbies on a safe/optimal path and i definately respect/appreciate that.
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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Visions on Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:01 pm

Dmarksvr wrote:Gotcha.....so now that im probably goin with tbol (chlordehydromethyl TESTOSTERONE), probably stacked with proviron and clomid and/or nolvadex as pct....do you think a supplemental test injection is needed as much, if at all?



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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Dmarksvr on Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:43 pm

Visions wrote:What Gustavo is trying to tell you is... When you take Any steroid it shuts down your natural production... Without your natural production of Test you can get these symptoms: Depression, Fatigue, memory problems, moody, libido problems even with Proviron... See your body needs Testosterone to function normally... Also your gains wont be as good cause now you don't have your natural production of test that was maintaining your current weight etc...

When you read some of those article about Tbol and Anavar not shutting you down much, those are very low doses that arent effective to do even the amount of muscle building you are wanting...

Toxicity for each is low but there isn't much clinical data,,, what we have is many guys that got tested through the years while on a cycle with these compounds and their liver values were normal or just slightly elivated...

You mentioned using Clomid for PCT... thats a hell of alot better and you'll definately recover correctly with it... It has some side affects but works great...


Got that, was just unclear at the time if anavar and/or proviron would compensate or atleast mitigate some of that until the pct was started. And now Im wondering the same for tbol (since its different, and seems to be a form of test) BUT given what you just said, it doesnt sound like it counts?

Also with the cycle im thinking of ( tbol 25ishMG, proviron, then clomid and/or Nolvadex as pct) would there be any benifit to taking the nolvadex during the actual cycle then saving the clomid for pct or vise/versa? Also would that or any combo of nolvadex AND clomid just be overkill with the tbol/proviron?
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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by NTG on Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:33 pm

Dmarksvr wrote:Got that, was just unclear at the time if anavar and/or proviron would compensate or atleast mitigate some of that until the pct was started. And now Im wondering the same for tbol (since its different, and seems to be a form of test) BUT given what you just said, it doesnt sound like it counts?

Also with the cycle im thinking of ( tbol 25ishMG, proviron, then clomid and/or Nolvadex as pct) would there be any benifit to taking the nolvadex during the actual cycle then saving the clomid for pct or vise/versa? Also would that or any combo of nolvadex AND clomid just be overkill with the tbol/proviron?

Im not trying to be a dick but I have read this entire thread and you are not ready for AAS. You just cant grasp the concept and compounds. What visions said was spot on. That last post by him should have been enough for you to understand why test is ALWAYS the base. Many compounds are derivitives of test it doesnt mean they will replace test in its entire capacity. Test is test and is the base bttom line, end of disucssion, no questions asked.

anxiety I think is the biggest worry when going without test for any length of time. Not only will you be without test during youre cycle but for a period of time afterwords as well. The 4-6 weeks pct is hard enough why add to it? I have done many cycle without test and they are difficult and not for just anybody. They are difficult in many ways. errections are gone and youre dependant on some ED compound. I felt depressed most of the time and my immotions were up and down and hard to deal with. I also feel better in term of joints and lifts from the little bit of extra water from the test thats JMO.

If you are dead set on testless cycle run some tribulus at like 4-6 grams a day throughout the cycle and into PCT. Its an LH stim and will keep youre test levels elevated some. This will only help with lower doses and mild compounds. if you run var for 8-10 weeks at 100mg it wont be enough.

Just my thoughts
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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Visions on Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:24 pm

Dmarksvr wrote:
Also with the cycle im thinking of ( tbol 25ishMG, proviron, then clomid and/or Nolvadex as pct) would there be any benifit to taking the nolvadex during the actual cycle then saving the clomid for pct or vise/versa? Also would that or any combo of nolvadex AND clomid just be overkill with the tbol/proviron?

Sorry, you need to research more before you jump in,,, this last paragraph is rambling and lets me know you don't know what each drug does and what it's used for...

So what I want you to do is answer a few questions and also tell me what these drugs do and how they are used... Yea it's a test but you can cheat and read up on it before you answer

#1) Nolvadex, What is its clinical name? What is it and how is it used and why... What steroid is it mainly used with?

#2) Clomid, What exactly is it? Why and how is it used? What doses? What negative sides can it cause?

#3) What is HPTA and what affects it and how

#4) PCT--What does it stand for? Why is it needed?

#5) Name at least 3 drugs that stimulate LH production?

I could go on and on but these are relative to the cycle you are proposing and it's to your benifit that you understand how and why you use these drugs and combinations of each and what happens to your body when you use them... All info should be on this site but feel free to search the web... You may think I am giving you a hard time but really I want you to learn and understand...


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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Dmarksvr on Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:02 pm

Visions wrote:Sorry, you need to research more before you jump in,,, this last paragraph is rambling and lets me know you don't know what each drug does and what it's used for...

So what I want you to do is answer a few questions and also tell me what these drugs do and how they are used... Yea it's a test but you can cheat and read up on it before you answer

#1) Nolvadex, What is its clinical name? What is it and how is it used and why... What steroid is it mainly used with?

#2) Clomid, What exactly is it? Why and how is it used? What doses? What negative sides can it cause?

#3) What is HPTA and what affects it and how

#4) PCT--What does it stand for? Why is it needed?

#5) Name at least 3 drugs that stimulate LH production?

I could go on and on but these are relative to the cycle you are proposing and it's to your benifit that you understand how and why you use these drugs and combinations of each and what happens to your body when you use them... All info should be on this site but feel free to search the web... You may think I am giving you a hard time but really I want you to learn and understand...


Grrr lost my first draft of this so im gonna try this again but its gonna be half assed....

First i apologize for my writing style. I tend to write like i think...so you get this kinda stream of conscienceness effect thats hard for some to follow.

Second i'd like to address some of NTG's comments....

I did understand what he was saying, and why test was important. But he never specifically said if only straight test would work and nothing else...or if different forms would work and if so how well....so i was asking. Also i do atleast have a general idea of what the drugs i was talking about do, and i've heard of some using nolvadex and/or clomid during the cycle and not just at pct time so i was asking about that. Also as far as the effect of not having test....i took 50mg of anavar for 6 weeks, had no adverse side effects...felt fantastic actually. So as far as anavar at those doses and that duration i have a fair idea what to expect....what you mentioned is a longer duration at twice the dose. People seem to keep forgetting that my goals are not typical of other peoples here. Nor do i plan on doing any aas in high doses, long durations, or with any real frequency. I would assume that Tbol with its low aromatization and other similarities to anavar is gonna be a simliar experience (for the most part)...and from what i've read about proviron it shoud combat most of the negative effects or worst case senerio is not likely to make them worse.

Now moving on to Visions test....

Ok my memory for specifics sux...i can tell you that i have come accross the answers to most if not all the questions you asked at some time or another(and only hope that you'll believe me)....but here is my attempt to answer them with the "general ideas" i do remember. I will look up the answers though cuz i know my way around a search engine enough to find them easily...and if you insist i will post them.

1. Nolvadex: Dont remember clinical name, do know it is used to combat some of the negative effects aromatization of an aas/estrogen can have like Gyno...but may also lessen the gains you would get from aas. Assuming this last part isnt a trick question and its use isnt applicable with most or all other aas that can aromatize...i dont know, but seems like i remember hearing it mentioned in relation to primobolan.

2. clomid: its a drug that has a use for women that i dont remember, but in males one use is to stimulate natural test production, thus helping to aid in recovery from aas. Also i know porn stars are said to take it to improve ejaculation ability/amount. Dont remember the average doses right off hand, but easily found. Same for side effects.

3. Hpta: Dont remember what the acronym stands for..and here it is possible that i've never actually seen it expanded, but infered that its meaning is basically your natural levels of and/or ability to produce natural healthy levels of various hormones. I would assume that many things can effect it, from diet, sleep, drugs, stress etc etc...

4. PCT: post cycle therapy (i looked it up again a couple nights ago). It is to help your body regain its normal ability to produce test after an aas has lowered it, and avoid the complications/negative effects that can occur because of a lack of test/test production.

5. I honestly dont know, though i wanna say clomid, and a guy in this thread mentioned tribulus, which i do know is a prohormone derived from plant sources, and i think some insects actually produce it too. also i know that LH stands for luetinizing hormone.

I am well aware that i am not extremely well versed on all these drugs, their effects, and how they interact with each other...i have read alot, but as i've stated previously it isnt always clear(and i tend to forget alot of the specifics), sometimes i get conflicting info, and often im unsure exactly what/and to what degree applies to me given the drugs i plan to take at the dosages and durations...so im asking people who have far more practical personal experiences with them.

But im also asking them to answer keeping my goals/intentions in mind...and not those of the typical person looking to get huge, compete in some sport, etc etc... Also often im asking how likely is this? or to what degree if any will this do that? crap like that so i can gauge how all this might pertain to me in practical sense.Then there is the fact that i've read accounts of other people doing this and that (supposedly experienced people)...some of it stuff similar to what i've talked about who had good experiences for the most part or they just didnt achieve what they wanted to (but their goals were often far loftier then mine)...but had few if any adverse side effects.

So if its LIKELY that with out test supplementation, tbol at 20-30mg for 6 weeks while taking liv 52 is going to severly shut me down, and proviron or something else wont help mitigate any negative effects (and if there is something else that will that i dont have to inject, let me in on the secret please) till a pct of clomid can get me back to normal then please just tell me. Or if there is some likely dangerous drug interaction here that i've missed please let me know that also. I wanna know how a cycle like this works in the real world, what the likely effect will be for me good and bad, and how much of it might be overkill or just useless. Frankly im willing to risk a small chance of negative effects from some lack of natural test for a short duration if there are no likely long term ill effects.
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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Visions on Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:45 pm

You have a very vague understanding and it hasn't yet clicked in your mind how it all goes together...

By your statement of what NTG said you don't understand that there isn't a substitute for Test and only Test can do everyting that Test does... Yes other steroids may be derivatives of Test but that doesn't mean they function like test...

The dose that we recommened for Anavar is 40-60mg and most guys take 50mg ed... Thats the same as you did in the past... You can safely run that cycle for 10 weeks with Anavar @ 50mg ed... of course you can stop at anytime you feel you are finished but 10 weeks is ok .

If you have done 50mg Anavar ed with no problems then I think you should stick with it cause Tbol may have the opposite affect on you as in negative sides like libido problems and other concerns when you don't suppliment with test...

I am not gonna give you the answers to that little test that relates to your cycle cause your mind is made up and there is no use in me wasting more time... I know what your goals are and even though they may be small there is a certain way to do things to keep the negative sides at bay and to keep your body safe so it will function again on it's own in a timely manor...


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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by NTG on Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:35 pm

Visions wrote:You have a very vague understanding and it hasn't yet clicked in your mind how it all goes together...

By your statement of what NTG said you don't understand that there isn't a substitute for Test and only Test can do everyting that Test does... Yes other steroids may be derivatives of Test but that doesn't mean they function like test...

The dose that we recommened for Anavar is 40-60mg and most guys take 50mg ed... Thats the same as you did in the past... You can safely run that cycle for 10 weeks with Anavar @ 50mg ed... of course you can stop at anytime you feel you are finished but 10 weeks is ok .

If you have done 50mg Anavar ed with no problems then I think you should stick with it cause Tbol may have the opposite affect on you as in negative sides like libido problems and other concerns when you don't suppliment with test...

I am not gonna give you the answers to that little test that relates to your cycle cause your mind is made up and there is no use in me wasting more time... I know what your goals are and even though they may be small there is a certain way to do things to keep the negative sides at bay and to keep your body safe so it will function again on it's own in a timely manor...

Well said. I am done throwing my words into the wind as well.
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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Dmarksvr on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:57 am

At the time it wasnt that i didnt understand, rather i wasnt clear on the specifics because all you said was test. And thats often applied as a generic term for any type of test and/or derivatives. So i asked because i wanted clarification. I did understand that straight test was used to avoid all these negative effects while the aas did its job and before the pct was started... But i also wondered if other forms would help at all or not.... even if straight test was all you were talking about. I guess i could of just made sweeping assumptions or a random guess but i thought it might be smarter to just ask you to be more clear and expand on the subject.

And no i havent made up my mind yet, and i've already changed it once during this thread based on what people said about tbol...and i have to admit i didnt think anyone would talk me out of anavar, but then i started to reconsider(evidence that hey maybe i do have an open mind). So i start asking questions about the cycle with tbol, and we get into the thing about test so i start asking about that. All this because i want to get an idea of the risk vs rewards, any long term effects of doing it like i was thinking, the likely hood of this happening or that, how proviron or other drugs might help/hurt/interact if i chose to risk it without test supplement, etc..etc..etc....All so i can attempt to make an informed decision that i feel comfortable with.

I understand that the cycle i was thinking about isnt ideal...but how not ideal is it? So i ask questions concerning short term risks, long term risks, odds of, degrees, specifics, other peoples real world experiences and how it all relates to me. I ask all these questions and for advice so i can make MY OWN CHOICE....not so you can make it for me. In the end what does it get me? "If you dont already know...well then we arent gonna tell you"... Very helpful.
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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by gustavo77 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:49 am

Dmarksvr wrote:At the time it wasnt that i didnt understand, rather i wasnt clear on the specifics because all you said was test. And thats often applied as a generic term for any type of test and/or derivatives. So i asked because i wanted clarification. I did understand that straight test was used to avoid all these negative effects while the aas did its job and before the pct was started... But i also wondered if other forms would help at all or not.... even if straight test was all you were talking about. I guess i could of just made sweeping assumptions or a random guess but i thought it might be smarter to just ask you to be more clear and expand on the subject.

And no i havent made up my mind yet, and i've already changed it once during this thread based on what people said about tbol...and i have to admit i didnt think anyone would talk me out of anavar, but then i started to reconsider(evidence that hey maybe i do have an open mind). So i start asking questions about the cycle with tbol, and we get into the thing about test so i start asking about that. All this because i want to get an idea of the risk vs rewards, any long term effects of doing it like i was thinking, the likely hood of this happening or that, how proviron or other drugs might help/hurt/interact if i chose to risk it without test supplement, etc..etc..etc....All so i can attempt to make an informed decision that i feel comfortable with.

I understand that the cycle i was thinking about isnt ideal...but how not ideal is it? So i ask questions concerning short term risks, long term risks, odds of, degrees, specifics, other peoples real world experiences and how it all relates to me. I ask all these questions and for advice so i can make MY OWN CHOICE....not so you can make it for me. In the end what does it get me? "If you dont already know...well then we arent gonna tell you"... Very helpful.


Bro, we are not saying that if you don't already know then we are not gonna tell you. We are merely saying that there is tons of info on all the questions you've asked, particularly on this site, simply put in a little effort and research it for yourself. When we mentioned Test, we mean testosterone, if we meant anavar, t-bol or any other compound then we would have mentioned it by name. Now i along with the other members that have commented on this thread have answered your questions and yet you keep on asking the same questions. Bro, any cycle without testosterone is gonna cause you side effects. I am not gonna list them because Visions along with myself have already stated what kind of sides you may experience. If you need to read the responses over again then by all means do so, the answers are there and the ones that aren't, use the search button, if you cannot find them that way then come back and ask. Peace.


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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Dmarksvr on Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:31 am

Visions: "I am not gonna give you the answers to that little test that relates to your cycle cause your mind is made up and there is no use in me wasting more time... I know what your goals are and even though they may be small there is a certain way to do things to keep the negative sides at bay and to keep your body safe so it will function again on it's own in a timely manor..."

Im sorry but that basically amounts to "if you dont know...im not gonna tell ya" Atleast as far as what me and Visions was discussing.

Discussion... thats what i was goin for. And No many of my questions havent been answered atleast in full, and some were flat out ignored. Is the info somewhere on this board? ya probably....but many of them arent super general questions like..."hey whats good to make me look super cut?" , "whats pct?"...etc. Many of them are very specific to my situation and a particular drug combo, dosage, effect...etc. Or questions that a quote from a drug profile, or some book wouldnt fully answer. Shit that i'd really have to dig and dig to find an answer.

One example is the stuff about using test to supplement during the aas cycle to avoid negative sides. I got it the first time they said it. Im sorry that i didnt know or assume that when someone says "test" that will only ever mean straight 100% natural testosterone. But still no one would answer my questions about whether any derivatives or other drugs like proviron would help, and if so to what degree. It was like "we said test works...be happy with that."

Hell most boards i've been on, if you start talking about something and part of discussion leads to a topic thats kinda general, they will atleast say "hey man check out this thread its all about that topic." Maybe they'd even suggest you start a new thread to discuss that, or suggest you search for "blank"..... and generally "use the fucking search button" statements are reserved for whole topics dedicated to some noob questions like "i just bought an african lion!!! what should i feed it????"

At first that seemed to be how it would be here, but i realize now that if i dont take what someone says as gospel truth, refrain from asking further questions and just do what they say im gonna get attacked, told i dont understand what im being told, just dont get it, or atleast told they arent gonna talk to me anymore in general or about the topics i wanted to DISCUSS.
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gustavo77
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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by gustavo77 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:19 am

Dmarksvr wrote:Visions: "I am not gonna give you the answers to that little test that relates to your cycle cause your mind is made up and there is no use in me wasting more time... I know what your goals are and even though they may be small there is a certain way to do things to keep the negative sides at bay and to keep your body safe so it will function again on it's own in a timely manor..."

Im sorry but that basically amounts to "if you dont know...im not gonna tell ya" Atleast as far as what me and Visions was discussing.

Discussion... thats what i was goin for. And No many of my questions havent been answered atleast in full, and some were flat out ignored. Is the info somewhere on this board? ya probably....but many of them arent super general questions like..."hey whats good to make me look super cut?" , "whats pct?"...etc. Many of them are very specific to my situation and a particular drug combo, dosage, effect...etc. Or questions that a quote from a drug profile, or some book wouldnt fully answer. Shit that i'd really have to dig and dig to find an answer.

One example is the stuff about using test to supplement during the aas cycle to avoid negative sides. I got it the first time they said it. Im sorry that i didnt know or assume that when someone says "test" that will only ever mean straight 100% natural testosterone. But still no one would answer my questions about whether any derivatives or other drugs like proviron would help, and if so to what degree. It was like "we said test works...be happy with that."

Hell most boards i've been on, if you start talking about something and part of discussion leads to a topic thats kinda general, they will atleast say "hey man check out this thread its all about that topic." Maybe they'd even suggest you start a new thread to discuss that, or suggest you search for "blank"..... and generally "use the fucking search button" statements are reserved for whole topics dedicated to some noob questions like "i just bought an african lion!!! what should i feed it????"

At first that seemed to be how it would be here, but i realize now that if i dont take what someone says as gospel truth, refrain from asking further questions and just do what they say im gonna get attacked, told i dont understand what im being told, just dont get it, or atleast told they arent gonna talk to me anymore in general or about the topics i wanted to DISCUSS.


Bro you are missing the point. Firstly "are the answers on this board?? ya probably" tells me that you have not researched as much as you have stated. Believe me, i do not want to argue with you on this, I just want to mention that i spend hours and hours researching stuff like this, in other words i put my time in then ask questions. Visions is a moderator and a very knowledgable person, and i know for a fact that he spends hours and hours researching info so that he can share it with us. Now to answer your question about proviron mitigating any side effects from orals such as anavar or t-bol. Well it may but it all depends on one's body chemistry whether that person tends to get shut down hard or not that hard at all. It's just like pct, some people can do three weeks of nolva 40/30/20 and recover wonderfully, others need nolva and clomid in heavy doses for a month in order to recover from a cycle. And we never said test works so be happy with that, like there is no foundation for our recommendation. It is fact that all AAS including testosterone will shut down your natural test product. Without adding synthetic test as a replacement, you are gonna be missing something that is important for your body to function normally, until it can recover and start producing it's own natural test again. All the statements that were made were meant to help you my friend not attack you. Here, we believe that one should research and learn and find out what works best for his/her own body. The truth is that no one here is going to be able to tell you with absolute certainty that taking proviron with your oral is gonna be enough to mitigate the sides effects of being shut down, because we don't know your body chemistry. If this is what you want to do then try it and let us know how it goes, if it goes good then great, if not then next time you might want to try say 150-200mg of test cyponate or enathate per week along with your oral. Either way bro, we all have to learn about our bodies. i am just finishing up my first real cycle and have learned so very much and know of many, many things i am going to do differently my next cycle. Good luck my friend. Peace.


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Dmarksvr

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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Dmarksvr on Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:21 am

"Bro you are missing the point. Firstly "are the answers on this board?? ya probably" tells me that you have not researched as much as you have stated. Believe me, i do not want to argue with you on this, I just want to mention that i spend hours and hours researching stuff like this, in other words i put my time in then ask questions. Visions is a moderator and a very knowledgable person, and i know for a fact that he spends hours and hours researching info so that he can share it with us"

I got the point...the point was in the opinion of several that responded to this thread that i didnt do enough research. In my opinion their expectations were overly harsh. Also my point was that many of the questions are very specific and/or esoteric...not easily found through a search with out wading through dozens of posts to find a few useful bits of info. I've been on many boards that focus on many different topics, some i was fairly knowledgable about, some i was just getting into or curious about. At none of them have i been subjected to that kind of treatment for asking questions about the answers or statements made in response to my initial post.

I ask something you respond, i ask more questions that relate to that response and so on.... I've done that on alot of boards and never been treated like this. At most people like i said have suggested i start a new thread to explore a point that was hit upon, or pointed me in the direction of a thread with that info, or atleast suggested i search for "blank" because there will likely be many posts that address my questions about "blank"

I have no doubt that visions is knowledable, and hell he is probably a good guy even....but i dont think it was fair to start talking to me about things, then when i ask for him to expand on those things or clarify them he shuts me down, says i need more research...oh and that my minds made up and i wont listen. The fact that i hadnt said "well screw this, im just gonna do the tbol and hope for the best" and was still asking questions is evidence that my mind wasnt made up and i was simply trying to explore the points that he brought up. (oh and the people who chimed in with "ya what he said!!!" posts were very helpful)

Now as for the rest of your post man....YES! For the most part thats what im talkin about, thats what i've wanted. Thats whats been lacking alot through the last half of this thread. I realize that peoples chemistry differs, and that no one was going to be able to give me definate answers to some of the types of questions i was asking. I wanted personal experiences, opinions, thoughts, theories...a discussion. Once we got into the whole "test" thing though things went bad. No one would answer about how effective using proviron or other stuff to compensate for not taking test might work. No one would comment on the sequence and mix of drugs, drug interactions, or personal experiences with the various drugs or mixes of drugs i was talking about...atleast not the details i was asking about.

I thought i made it pretty clear that i wasnt looking to inject test, but was trying to explore ways of minimizing the impact of not doing test, and still taking the tbol or anavar. No one wanted to "explore" that with me though i guess. Instead of just saying that though, i get about half a dozen repeats of "aas will shutdown test, you will experience bla bla bla if you dont supplement with test"....Got that the first time, was trying to explore ways to minimize the bla bla with other drugs or test derivatives that might not be as good as test but might help(and explore the risks vs rewards of each)...again no one instrested in having that conversation with me.


Anyways if anyone feels like actually discussing/exploring the questions i've asked in this thread please lets do that now....if not lets just let this thread die because im tired of having to try and explain and/or defend myself just in the hopes of squeezing a few drops of useful information out of someone.
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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by gustavo77 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:51 am

The truth is bro that there isn't any drug that will effectively replace testosterone except testoterone. As I said proviron may help, infact considering that you did not experience any negative sides from your previous anavar cycle, proviron most likely will help out a lot. I suggest that you do anavar or t-bol with proviron and see how you react. It won't kill you if you experience some sides like depression, fatigue, loss of libido etc. And you may not experience any of these sides at all. Just run some clomid after your cycle for three weeks at 100mg/day the first week, 50mg/day the 2nd week and 50mg/day the third week along with some tribulus at 3-5 grams per day to bring back your natural test production. As far as t-bol you will get the gains you want off of 40mg per day, 25 mg won't do much at all for you as it is a mild compound, but a great one. Run proviron at 25-50mg/day also. Peace.


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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Dmarksvr on Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:33 am

thank you...thats likely what i'll do. I am considering starting on a pretty low dose though just to see how it works. The stuff is so cheap that i can afford to play with it a little. Worst case senerio if i have to up the dose it will give me more incentive to keep working out consistantly to get the results i want, and that may help me establish the habit of working out regularly with or without gear. I also will likley get some clomid and nolvadex for pct, in case i react badly to the clomid.

I've been reading up on the debate of clomid/nolvadex use before/during a cycle....trying to figure out if using one or the other as an attempt to boost the test production before or during the cycle would have any benifit(i read some stuff that said studies showed nolvadex raised natural test production similar to clomid) . And wether it would be complimentry to the proviron.... Any thoughts on this? Or heaven forbid should i start another topic?

Seems like from what im getting so far, the mechanisms the aas involve to shut you down arent directly related to how much test you are producing (or have free to use) once exposed to the aas...so that they likely wont help to prevent shutdown. Also some of the effects of clomid might conflict with proviron use as an attempt to mitigate the side effects of natural test shutdown. Atleast thats my take so far.

Also along these lines...can any one offer up some other suggestions besides proviron that might combat the side effects from lack of natural test production while on aas?
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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by gustavo77 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:08 am

Dmarksvr wrote:thank you...thats likely what i'll do. I am considering starting on a pretty low dose though just to see how it works. The stuff is so cheap that i can afford to play with it a little. Worst case senerio if i have to up the dose it will give me more incentive to keep working out consistantly to get the results i want, and that may help me establish the habit of working out regularly with or without gear. I also will likley get some clomid and nolvadex for pct, in case i react badly to the clomid.

I've been reading up on the debate of clomid/nolvadex use before/during a cycle....trying to figure out if using one or the other as an attempt to boost the test production before or during the cycle would have any benifit(i read some stuff that said studies showed nolvadex raised natural test production similar to clomid) . And wether it would be complimentry to the proviron.... Any thoughts on this? Or heaven forbid should i start another topic?

Seems like from what im getting so far, the mechanisms the aas involve to shut you down arent directly related to how much test you are producing (or have free to use) once exposed to the aas...so that they likely wont help to prevent shutdown. Also some of the effects of clomid might  conflict with proviron use as an attempt to mitigate the side effects of natural test shutdown. Atleast thats my take so far.

Also along these lines...can any one offer up some other suggestions besides proviron that might combat the side effects from lack of natural test production while on aas?


Well what happens during a cycle is that AAS make your body think there is sufficient hormones circulating so that it stops producing it's own.  Clomid or nolva will not help this on cycle and would basically be a waste of money.  Some people however have had results with taking tribulus on cycle.  So if you took 2-5 grams per day of tribulus along with proviron this may help you and i recommend trying it.  Now as far as clomid giving some people side effects this is true so it is best to have both nolva and clomid on hand for pct. Start with the clomid pct i recommended, then if you start to experience sides switch to nolva.  Nolva should be taken for three weeks like clomid but at 60mg/day the first week, 40mg/day the second week, then 20mg/day the third week.  In any case i wish you all the best bro, keep training , be consistant and you will achieve your goals.  Peace.


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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by thehulk3791 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:52 am

gustavo77 wrote:Well what happens during a cycle is that AAS make your body think there is sufficient hormones circulating so that it stops producing it's own. Clomid or nolva will not help this on cycle and would basically be a waste of money. Some people however have had results with taking tribulus on cycle. So if you took 2-5 grams per day of tribulus along with proviron this may help you and i recommend trying it. Now as far as clomid giving some people side effects this is true so it is best to have both nolva and clomid on hand for pct. Start with the clomid pct i recommended, then if you start to experience sides switch to nolva. Nolva should be taken for three weeks like clomid but at 60mg/day the first week, 40mg/day the second week, then 20mg/day the third week. In any case i wish you all the best bro, keep training , be consistant and you will achieve your goals. Peace.

u know gustavo I was lazy and had u answer to this thread...cuz me and u think the same...I new u would answer exactly what I would have put and u did!!!
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Re: Methanabol Then Anavar.....

Post by Nitrateman on Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:30 am

This is the most exhausting self serving thread I have ever read on this board. This thread is not a "discussion"...because noone but the asker gains any benifit from it. We have stickies, we have previous threads and posts...they are there for a reason. Use them, read them, take notes.

Nobody on this board would have answered Visions questions...at least not in a public forum.

Go do the work, make your choice, do your cycle...end of topic.

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